Great Jazz vs. Great Jazz for Dancing

Hi Jazz Fans,

I once overheard a bandleader say about playing for dancers “I just do whatever I do and if people don’t like it, f***’em.” This was in the same breath that he was complaining that the better dancers didn’t come out to hear his band play. D’oh.

Musicians and dancers aren’t always on the same page about what makes a good set. Sometimes my fellow musicians or my fellow dancers will walk away from a set thinking it was killer, and I will walk away pretty disappointed with the way it turned out. People usually attribute this to “never being satisfied” or “being too hard on yourself” but I think it really has to do with having two sets of benchmarks for success.

Having experience as both a musician and a dancer I notice that I hear different things from dancers than what I hear from musicians in describing a “good” set. Here are things some I often hear:

Musicians’ List

• I did creative things with my solos, I had a chance to “open up” as a soloist

• The other musicians inspired me to do different things

• The group dynamic had a lot of play back and forth – musicians were feeding off of each other

• The band was really swingin’ – ie everyone was playing well and we were locked in together to a particular groove

• People were cheering, clapping.

• People told me they liked it.

• Dancers were “jamming”

• People bought CDs/merch

Dancers’ List

• The music had a good variety of tempos

• The average tempo was not too fast

• The songs weren’t too long (longer than 4 min is usually too long)

• The songs didn’t all sound the same

• There was good “energy” to the songs

• The band hit cool breaks, endings, and licks together.

• I recognized some of the songs

• The band’s style was swing (or trad depending on your taste)

• I felt like I was interacting with the live music

• The band didn’t take forever between songs and didn’t talk unintelligibly on the mic.

Pretty different! So why do dancers and musicians see it so differently? I think there are several things that we use as markers for a successful set on both sides that are misleading:

Myths Debunked

• “Doing creative things with your solos” is meaningless to dancers unless the things that you do are creative in a way that inspires dancing. Playing a bunch of really fast harmonically interesting passages is often lost on dancers, but a big wail on one note from a trumpet never misses.

• “The band was really swingin’” is not the same as “the band was really playing swing.” A band can swing without playing swing music; a band can play swing music without swinging. A combination of the two is important for successful dance music, but the fact that the words are homonyms makes it confusing.

• “People were cheering/clapping and people told me we did a good job” isn’t necessarily a barometer of how well people liked it. People clap at the end of a show because they’re supposed to clap at the end of a show. Dancers sometimes stomp for an encore simply because they want to dance to another song, not because they were crazy about the music. It doesn’t mean it’s not flattering, or that they don’t appreciate you, but take it with a grain of salt. If they say good things about you publicly or to other people without being prompted, then you know they actually liked it. To me, having half the audience hooping and cheering and losing the other half is not a successful set.

• “Dancers were Jamming” – One jam means dancers were digging your music AND there were enough good dancers for there to be a jam. More than one jam (planned jams excluded) usually means the songs were too long and tempos were too fast, so people started jamming because the songs weren’t good for social dancing. Sometimes that’s not the case, but usually it’s pretty reliable.

• “There were a good variety of tempos and the average tempo wasn’t too fast.” The other day someone told me they were happy we’d started playing more “mid tempo” songs. First of all, backhanded compliments are pretty lame. Second of all someone else came up to me and told me they thought the same set was too slow. This happens at pretty much every dance – not everyone’s going to be happy with the tempos on any given night of dancing whether it’s a band or a DJ. The idea is to make the majority of people at each skill level happy. If you’re not digging the tempos one night, it might be you and not the band. That said, some bands only do play fast and slow songs. If you want to present your opinion, unless you know the band leader personally, share it with the organizer. However, if you’re going to go that route, you need to share your opinion every time, good, bad, or mediocre. People most often are willing to speak up when they don’t like something, but just take it for granted when they do. When organizers only hear the negative feedback then we end up with a DJed scene because they figure people just don’t like live bands.

• “I didn’t like it 'cause the songs all sounded the same”- It’s good for a band to vary their style subtly within the repertoire however every band has their own individual voice and that’s going to add cohesion to their sound. If a band comes out and just plays head tunes all night, well I find that pretty boring too, but don’t expect a band to come out and sound like 10 of your other favorite bands that a DJ plays in a row. I’ve never heard a great dancer complain that a band played all the same style of music all night. It’s always novice dancers who make this complaint because they don’t have enough skill to hear the more subtle variations in style that the band IS making.

• “The band took forever between songs.” Some bands, many bands, take too long. They also mumble into the mic between tunes. If you’re gonna talk to people, talk TO them for a reason and make sure they can understand you, but don’t just do it to cover your lack of preparedness for the show. However, with a DJ the time is too short between songs. It’s a social dance, so be social, chat with someone. Your lack of social skills does not constitute a band leader’s crisis. That’s one of the reasons I feel like a DJed dance is really just a practice session. Practice sessions are where you’re just there to practice dancing. Social dances are for listening to the music, interacting with others, and dancing.

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For what it’s worth, here’s the list of what makes me walk away happy from a set:

Glenn’s "Good Set" List

• Musicians walked away feeling good about the set

• Dancers walked away feeling good about the set

• I played well personally

• I didn’t feel limited in which charts I could call by anyone on stage’s abilities

• Everyone in the band played well together and listened to one another

• Everyone read the charts well and paid attention to dynamics, endings, and other details

• Tempos were well mixed

• Styles were well mixed

• There was energy between the crowd and the band.

• People talked about the show to their friends afterward, posted on facebook/twitter/blogs, etc

• People told the promoter/organizer that they liked the show

• People bought CDs

• People told me specific things they liked about the show

• I was able to keep dancers at all skill levels engaged.

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I think the more that musicians understand what makes good dance music, and the more that dancers understand the logistics and culture of dancing to live music (which IS the culture of the lindy hop), the better the scene will get.

cheers,

Glenn

2025 Update:

I think one of the problems that has arisen in the dance scene is that there's zero room for growth for musicians as artists within that scene, and it turns a lot of good musicians off to playing at dances. 15 or 20 years ago, the people who didn't want to play at dances were the ones who really didn't understand the genre anyway. Now there's a plethora of musicians who can really play great dance music, but aren't at all enthusiastic about playing at dances. Why?

Well, a couple of reasons.

First, pay for musicians at dance gigs hasn't really increased since this article was written 15 years ago. In fact in a lot of cases it's gone down. It should go without saying that that makes artists feel unappreciated.

Second, the dance scene stopped creating room for artistic growth.

• There's just only so much you can do with a pick-up band, even a pick-up band full of great musicians. Ironically some of the most interesting stuff to dance to is stuff that comes from bands playing together all the time and/or playing well rehearsed arrangements.

• Real pianos are a must, stop throwing dances with keyboards.

• Somehow, despite thousands of hours of musicality classes, the dance scene still hasn't really figured out how to connect to the music. Loud does not equal good. Look back at dances where you were like "wow that was amazing the energy was amazing." If you listen back, 9 times out of 10 the band was sloppy as heck and not doing anything musically interesting. The energy didn't come from great playing and something amazing happening that you were part of, it came from a simple formula: loud sounds excite the human brain. Just being a tool for making loud noise gets old for musicians. We can do a lot of cool stuff that's a lot more fun to dance to. Playing like that, for musicians, is sort of what it'd be if you made your living as a lindy hopper but every time you performed or taught all you were allowed to do was teach or perform late 90s east coast swing moves with lots of shoddy and possibly dangerous air steps.

I don't have any answers for you on how to fix it. I tried for a long time, I gave up. Someone else can give it a go.